【專訪】英國獨立雜誌網站 STACK

趁著交換學生拜訪倫敦期間，走訪了一趟這個英國甚為神秘的獨立雜誌網站 Stack，與創辦人 Steven 談論了許多與出版有關的想法，以下為訪談文章。

During my visit to London, I got contact with Stack’s founder Steven and got a chance to take a look with this mysterious independent magazine distributor. As we shared some opinions with publication, I collect our interview and discussion, making it into an article.

• Stack 介紹：

Stack 網站是由 Steven Waston ，一位來自倫敦的雜誌極度愛好者所創立。每個月，Steven 會依據不同主題從眾多獨立出版中選出一本最優秀的，將它寄送到訂閱的讀者手中。Stack 特別的運作方式在於，訂戶們透過 Stack 網站訂閱後，每個月都能收到一本出自全球各地「未知」的獨立雜誌，對雜誌迷們來說，就像是每月都能期待的一份驚喜，同時也是接觸新雜誌的好機會，且相較於一般販售的價格，透過 Stack 訂閱大約能夠省下 30 % 的費用，讓雜誌愛好者們在購買上多了ㄧ個小資且有趣的選擇。

• Then first, what is Stack ?

Stack is found by Steven Watson, an indeed magazine lover and editor. Every month, Stack will act as a magazine filter and select the best independent titles to Stack’s subscriber. The most interesting and fantastic part of this is that readers will never know what would they get until they receive this monthly “surprise”. There are piles of fantastic magazines out there just waiting to be discovered, and Stack makes it cheaper and easier than ever for people to explore and enjoy in the magazine world.

• 為什麼是獨立雜誌？它的重要性在哪裡？展露的精神？

與書相比，雜誌的「性感」之處在於它能夠發揮更多的持續與延展，不論是主題、形式、或是內容等，單本書很難做成一個系列，雜誌卻可以。它們能在很長一段時間內，有秩序地貫徹編輯理念，把更多有相同想法的人聚集起來使其產生共鳴和連結。但在製作雜誌的路上，人們往往有無比的熱情，結果卻並非能盡如人意。 「我認為這個主題十分有趣，是市場上沒有的，那就自己來創造一個吧。」— 許多雜誌的誕生都源於這個想法，然而幾個月後，便會被迫面臨資金匱乏與現實的銷售困難。

如果要說新媒體相對於傳統媒體的優勢，就是其傳播管道的多元，即便一開始讀者不多，漸漸地也能傳播起來，且風險成本相對低廉。但雜誌卻不行，更何況是獨立的小眾雜誌。「可持續性」這件事對於雜誌來說就像一道檻，跨得過是優點，跨不過便成了困境。

如果賣雜誌的人都越來越少了，看雜誌的人應該去哪裡買呢？

• Why independent magazine ? How does it show spirits ?

Compare to books, magazine is kind of “ sustained sexuality ”, no matter with subjects, forms or contents, it’s difficult to make a series of books, but magazines do. Magazines could last its spirits and editor’s aspiration in a long period, gather people with same interests and ideal. However, the road to compiling a magazine is never a piece of cake, it will be impossible to find any advertising suspensor without enough readers, thus you need to endeavour to reach more readers but there is really something to do it. Conversely, as for new media, due to the advantage of distribution relying on computers, it’s quite cheaper and easier for them to spread information and reach their readers.

‘’ Sustainability ”, in other words, is such a double-edged sword, it shows both superior and weak point of magazines.

However, if there are less and less people making and selling their magazines, where could we grab some amazing life nutrients ( magazines ) ?

So, that is what Stack doing.

• 專訪內容：（ 專訪時間為 2018 / 01 / 07 ）

Ariel（以下簡稱 A ）：請問一開始是如何產生想要創立 Stack 的想法呢？

Steven（以下簡稱 S ）：我過去是一位雜誌編輯但那並不是一本十分討喜的雜誌，因此我對此感到十分疲倦。而後，我發現了 《Little White Lies》 雜誌，他們闡述電影的方式正好擊中了我的喜好，他們談論電影的方式、封面的手繪插圖與設計排版上都讓我覺得很酷，幾乎每一期的雜誌我都很喜歡，所以我便和他們取得聯絡並開始為他們寫文章。儘管在資金有限的情況下，並非所有的作者都能夠取得相對應的稿費，但是每一期的出刊他們都花費了許多人力與資源在其中，透過為他們撰寫文章，我對《Little White Lies》 有了更近一步的認識，並了解到這就是我喜愛的雜誌，而且我的朋友們也都非常喜歡，只是對他們來說，是初次聽聞這本雜誌。所以我問了雜誌的發行人，為何他們不讓更多人知道這本很棒的雜誌呢？而我理解到由於資金有限，他們並沒有多餘的經費用於廣告與宣傳自己。我認為原因可能是相較於書籍，雜誌對於大眾來說的收藏性大過於閱讀本身，且雜誌長期以來也給人留下了這樣的印象。雜誌的發行就像是一次次反覆來回的運送，意思是指，當雜誌出版商將大量的當期雜誌送到書店或是寄賣處，在一般情況下，大約只會有 40 % 的雜誌會售出，所以出版商們可能能夠得到總體百分之四十的銷售量，但是主要 60% 未售出的雜誌會被收入庫存，因此出版商們便很容易地可以想像到會有 60% 的雜誌是在一段期間後會再次回收回來的。許多出版物的資金收益都是以廣告為主，但現在這類雜誌並非靠著廣告作為收入，也有些時候他們根本找不到願意投資的廣告商。

Ariel（short for A）: How do you get the idea to start the Stack ?

Steven（short for S） : I was working as a magazine editor but it was not a quite adorable magazine so I was quite bored with it. Then I found the 《Little White Lies》magazine and I just like the way they speak directly to me with the way they talk about film, with the way I thought about film and its illustration, and design is so cool, like every issue I love them so I contacted them and I started writing for them. Although back then they didn’t have enough money, they couldn’t pay people who writes, but every issue they have a big party. And for their new issue, I got to know them really well through just writing pieces for them and realised here is the magazine I loved and my friends really loved it, too. But they have just heard of it, so, I spoke to the publisher and just said to them “ why don’t more people know about them ? ” And I saw them was in need of money, so I think they didn’t have their budget for advertising or marketing themselves. So I started to concern and I think it’s not only because people’s lacked functional association with magazines itself but also it’s due to the magazine has been to. So magazine distribution isn’t mainly like several returns that means that you will send out lot of copies and maybe only 40% of them get sales, so maybe you get 40% for them and there is mainly 60% having the cover being stock and proved that it didn’t sell then you’ll get easily that these covers send back to you. All versions of publishing were you mainly making money from advertising, these days these kinds of magazine don’t make money from advertising, lots of them don’t have advertise at all.

A：那麼你認為這些小眾雜誌該如何生存呢？

S：這一直以來都是一個難解的問題，一種方式是將雜誌的價格提高，因此未來將很難找到價格 10 磅內的雜誌，並可能會使零售商們在進貨雜誌時因成本的考量而大幅減低進貨量或是選擇不發行此雜誌。因為一般的雜誌銷售機制為零售商們必須先確定此雜誌已取得大多數人們的關注或需求才會決定發售，而這種方式就像是一片雜草叢生的草地，是個毫無秩序依循的過程，所以我才開始經營 Stack，並試圖解決這些問題，以及如何針對特定的小型獨立雜誌進行發行。

A : But how could they survive ?

S : Well it’s very tough, one way is that the magazine cost more so it may unusual to have 10 pounds magazine but if you make to have a 10 pounds magazine, it might impossible to have your cover stock. And actually the way of magazine distribution is like with about one half of people to find these magazines and the publishers begin to distribute and this way is such a messy grass. So Stack begins to work with what would be to try to fix these and how could distribution work for specifically small independent magazines.

A：所以 Stack 是否就像是一位中介者的角色？

S：沒錯。我能確信的一件事情是，世界上存在著這麼一群人，他們是對於各式各樣不同雜誌非常渴求的，而這些獨立雜誌特別的地方也在於，他們並不需要成千上萬的讀者，因為這些小眾雜誌的編輯團隊也不大，主要是靠著編輯群們對雜誌的熱情與喜愛而完成。因此，假如這些小眾雜誌們能夠得到各自約 5,000 或是 10,000 個讀者，這便成為了一門生意，這是一個小型而又具有持續性的運作方式。我認為其中最大的挑戰在於，你如何去串連起那些有意閱讀新興雜誌且願意購買的讀者，這是 Stack 一直努力在做的事情。

A : So Stack just like a coordinator between the customers and publishers ?

S : Exactly. The thing I am convinced is that I know there are bunch of people from worldwide who want to read these very different magazines, so the amazing thing about these magazines is they don’t need ten of thousands of hundreds of readers. Because these magazines is made by small team with people who are passionate, so actually, if each of these magazines can get each 5,000 or 10,000 subscribers, that’s a business. It’s a little sustainable business. So I think the challenge is how did you connect those people who want to read and are willing to pay for them with the magazine that is new to those people, that’s what Stack trying to do.

A：如果是這樣，這些獨立雜誌的編輯們是否能夠依此維生呢？或是這可能只是他們兼職的一部分？

S：由於我並不知道是否所有的獨立雜誌編輯都仰賴雜誌的銷售作為主要收入，因此我會認為，許多人從事這樣的事情是出自於自身的興趣，把它作為一種愛好，只是他們想要做的事情，然後他們有全職工作，很多人從事雜誌編輯的工作也許能夠賺到一小筆錢，但是他們可能也需要做其他事來養活自己。或許有部分人是確實地投入於雜誌本身，探討雜誌的發展方向並給予某些建議，如同雜誌的顧問或經理。舉例來說，有一家雜誌他們有自己的辦公室，人們每天都來這裡工作，製作他們的雜誌，但最重要的是，除了製作雜誌，他們也同時經營自身的品牌，我認為目前這樣的發展趨勢越來越多了，為了在現實生活中取得工作與生存的平衡，你需要跨領域去延伸很多不同的東西。

A : Like small team for making magazines, does they really live for it ? It’s their only job or it’s their part-time job for it ?

S : So I would said, I don’t think I know anyone, who is making that magazine and selling it in shops or online and living in entirely from the money they sell by magazines. Lots of people doing it as a hobby, just the thing they want to do aside so they have a full time job and they have something to do to like eating. A lot of people are doing it and maybe making a little bit money from magazines but they need to do other things to support themselves, some people are doing the really the magazine it is, that’s the thing from the business and they might also do something what you call consulting, something like that, like alongside the magazine. So for example, there is a magazine that they have an office, they all come here everyday to work like at their office and make their magazines but the most thing is that as well as making the magazine, they also do like corporate mark and like other brands, so I just think that it’s coming more and more because of the reality in live and work now. You have many different things you need to contribute to.

A：是否就像是著名的生活風格雜誌《Monocle》，他們目前也同時發展並經營著 「Monocle」 這個品牌。

S：是的，他們確實正在做著許多令人驚豔的事！

A : It’s just like the very famous one, the Monocle, they have their own brand.

S : Yeah ! They exactly done an amazing job with that !

A：那麼可以請你簡單介紹一下 Stack 團隊的組成嗎？團隊中總共有哪些人呢？

S：一般來說我們主要有三個人，我、編輯 Grace 和 訂閱經理 Vicky。而上個月由於年度的 Stack Awards 的舉辦，我們在團隊中增加了四位人手，有時在 Awards 期間， 我們會成長為八人的團隊。

A : Could you give a brief introduction of the Stack’s team, like how many people work for it ?

S : So mostly is three of us. Me, and Grace, she is the editor and Vicky, who is subscription manager. And open until last month, we still have four who works for the Awards and it’s finished now so sometime we might grow up to eight during this time.

A：那麼你認為現在的工作和過去作為雜誌編輯最大的不同是什麼呢？

S：我並再不像過去以文字撰寫為主要工作。我的意思是說我十分喜愛製作雜誌的過程，只是我對上一份工作感到厭倦，而開始了 Stack 並且非常享受這一份工作，我非常沈浸於那個從一份想法開始，然後找到適合的人們去寫作、或與插畫師、攝影師合作製作一些東西、與設計師一同討論編排，對我來說，整個過程是十分精彩且激勵人心的，或許你會從中獲得各種靈感，又或某些情感衝擊，這些都會體現在雜誌上的每個頁面上，盡可能地展現完美。事實上，我現在的工作方式，你知道，由於 Stack 是一個完全線上的平台，它是一個與數位化脫不了關係的東西，所以我們主要是經由讀者透過網站訂閱來與他們取得連結，並且不斷地有新的讀者加入來擴大這個關係網絡，因此這代表著我們同時也會持續地更新 Blog 與電子報，其實也與製作雜誌的過程有一部份的相似性，就像雜誌撰稿的過程中，你會針對同樣的東西不停地來回修改，直到確定沒問題並將其放在頁面上，這從來不是一件一蹴而就的事情，所以過程中將會面臨到不斷地反覆修改，它是，當你發現有新的訊息確立，你當下就必須有相對應的改變，這就像一個設計的過程，我喜歡它！但我在 Stack 的主要工作並非如此。因此我想這是和我過去作為編輯的主要區別，我們目前的編輯為 Grace ，她的工作便是寫作和製作內容，雖然我也十分想要參與內容的寫作，但我實在有太多與 Stack 相關的事情需要做。

A : So how do you think the difference between the job you do now from an editor you used to be ?

S : I don’t get to write as much stuff as I used to anymore. And I mean I am really in love of making magazines. I was bored with my last job and I started the Stack, while I really enjoy the whole process of beginning with several ideas and commissioning people to go off and write them. And working with illustrator, photographer to make something and also with designer to put all the things into such a brilliant collaborative process. And you get this, it’s so inspiring that you get some opportunities or you get a shot of the affection, so you get the like you work so hard that it set final to make these pages and you get as close as you can to something that was perfect. And actually the way I work now, you know, because the stack it’s really online, it’s a digital thing, so nothing have done like it’s always subscribed, keep on going, so it means like writing a blog first now, our writers, our really through wants, our pleasure, our shed letter post where you know when you are writing something for magazine, you write it and you might go back to something again, change it and put it on the pages. It doesn’t like to fit properly so you need to make some more changes, it’s when you see the proves come out and you change again, it’s like a design process, and I love that ! but I don’t get to do that in Stack. So I guess it will be the main difference from I used to be an editor because obviously now Grace is our editor so it’s her job to be writing and producing contents and I really want to help with that but I really have other stuffs I need to do.

A：那麼你現在仍會偶爾從事寫作的工作嗎？

S：目前我主筆 Stack 自己的播客（ Podcast ），這表示我需要與各個不同的雜誌製作人訪談並且撰寫與雜誌相關的簡介與短評，實際上寫一個播客和編寫採訪或其他類似的東西非常相似，你必須事前規劃訪綱、採訪內容，你會知道這個採訪大致的進行方向，而非讓它朝向無邊際的發展，因此所以這可能是我現在做的事情中與寫作最接近的東西。此外，我也會製作雜誌展示的視頻，並提出一些我認為這本雜誌特別的地方，我覺得這是顯現出雜誌實體特色一個很好的方式，而且當你在翻閱雜誌時，讀者能夠透過視頻感受到頁面翻動的聲音與書頁上的光澤，我認為視頻是一個傳達雜誌生命力很好的媒介。

A : So do you still write something now ?

S : We have a podcast which I write so it means that I need to talk to our magazines makers and actually writing a podcast is very similar to writing interviews or something so again you know you have yourself questions and you know what to talk about while you can’t allowed it to develop as it goes, so that probably the close thing I do to the writing now. And I also make the video view like showing the magazines and I will talk about it because I think it’s really good to try to emphasise physical characteristics of these magazines and I think the good way of doing this is the way you turning the pages because when you turn the pages on the video, it can be hear the pages turned and you can see like the shine on the page so I think the video is pretty well thing to do that way.

A：你是如何找到這些各式各樣的雜誌呢？你是如何聯繫雜誌製作人與如何挑選雜誌的呢？

S：事實上，有許多人們會主動嘗試與我們取得聯繫，我指的是我與 Grace 和 Vicky 其實不時都會上網瀏覽各式各樣的部落格，我有時也會到不同的商店去逛逛，我們會去關注或發現某些新上市或是特別的雜誌，這是最基本確切的方式。但基本上，每個月我們都會收到各種不同的雜誌，因此我們能夠接觸到的東西是非常新的，最重要的是，我們能夠持續追蹤這些雜誌，並看見他們的變化，而 Stack 每年只發送 12 本雜誌，因此這樣的情況確實是一個翻轉的狀態。在雜誌的選擇上，舉例來說，假設我們上個月發送了與食物有關的雜誌，所以現在我便知道接下來的幾個月內我可能不會再發送食物雜誌。因此，我們也正在找尋如何平衡每期送出的雜誌主題和內容，這是我們目前努力的方向。此外，我們也有另一種發送的方式 — Sampler ，以每週閃存的方式販售，且對讀者來說在購買上更加容易，Sampler 上的雜誌每週都不同，我們會發送電子郵件給有興趣的訂閱讀者，並通知他們：嘿，這是本週的精選雜誌，如果有意購買你能夠透過郵件中的點擊連結至購買頁面。所以對於 Stack 來說，Sampler 也是非常重要的一部分，由於讀者在看見雜誌的第一眼可能對它一無所知，所以我們必須說明並介紹雜誌，而這也是發送信件的主要內容與目的。相較於一般的訂閱，Sampler 運作的模式讓讀者能夠自主性的去選擇購買，比如說，你知道有些食物雜誌實際可能不是那麽主流，但或許還是有讀者會喜歡，因此這提供讀者們自由購買的選項。

A : So how could you select so many different kinds of magazines ? Like how can you contact with so many magazines and make distributions ?

S : Well, there are a lot of people trying to contact us, and so I mean me and Grace and Vicky, actually, we are always like sort of meeting blog and I am sort of going to shops and so we will see and find, it’s the exact way. But more often than not, once a month you started a magazine, they send it to us and so we get to see stuff when it’s very new and the most important is that we can stay in touch with them and see how these magazines change. And with Stack, we only send 12 magazines per year so exactly it’s really a case like flipping out, so since we had sent food magazine last month so now I know I won’t send food magazine again if I did maybe in a year. Thus we are looking for other things like how do we bring balance to confirm to send it out. That’s the main point, and we also have Sampler now offering weekly flash sell and that’s much more free easy, it’s different one every week and we send the email to people and said “ hey, this is this week’s magazine, and if you like to buy a copy you can click it in.” So with Stack it’s really important that it’s a very very curative selection because people have no sense when they get it so I need to say and explain what I am sending and so we’ll send a newsletter to introduce it. With Samplers, because it’s something that you choose to buy, that you know there’s some food magazine that is actually not so interesting food magazine but if you love food magazine, you might buy both, so it give them offer to do that.

A：是否能夠更近一步的說明 Sampler 和 Stack 訂閱在運作上的不同呢？

S：Sampler 其實也算是 Stack 在運作上十分特別的部分，他和我們訂閱的服務恰好是互補的，讀者可以透過 Sampler 購買單行本的雜誌，並且在雜誌正式出版前就能讀到熱騰騰的雜誌，Sampler 的運作方式主要是透過電子報與讀者們連結，我們每週四會推出不同的 Sampler 供訂閱，並且在數量發行有限的狀況下，我們也會以 10% 的優惠價格提供給對這方面有興趣的讀者，而這同時也算是一種測試水溫的方法，因為不是每本新發行的雜誌我們都能保證有一定的讀者存在，Sampler 也提供的新興獨立雜誌們發聲的機會。此外，對讀者而言他們不需要做任何承諾或是長期訂閱，這也串連起雜誌與讀者間的共識。

A : Could you brief how do the Sampler works？

S : Sampler is also a special part of Stack. It’s just different from our subscription, readers could get single issue by Samplers and it’s weekly flash sell offering so they could get really new magazines. And the way Sampler do is by sending newsletter to connect our readers, we’ll select weekly new issue every Thursday and offer a great bargain for readers. It gives them choices to decide and buy, and for Stack and our magazines, it’s also a good test for this curative selection and maybe gather more new subscribers.

A：今年已是 Stack Awards 第三年舉行，請問是否能夠簡單地介紹一下 Stack Awards ？

S：會開始想要發想 Stack Awards 的原因是希望能夠有更多獨立雜誌被看見，以及對於一般雜誌而言，想要參與獎項的提名也需要一大筆金錢。而 Stack 提供的是一個免費提名就能夠有機會與來自世界不同的雜誌們一較高下的機會，且是專門 for 獨立雜誌，其中也涵蓋了對於出版獎項想要創造一種新的模式的意涵。關於 Stack Awards 今年已經是第三年度舉辦，我相信未來的規模將會越來越大，此外，我們也擁有自己的頒獎典禮，每年的 Awards 會有來自世界各地的雜誌人們齊聚一堂，不只是作為一場 Stack Awards，同時也創造了一個雜誌人們利用難得一同交流的世界。關於 Awards 的評選，主要是由我來作為評選，有時也會與不同的雜誌人們一起討論出各獎項的優勝者，我認為 Stack Awards 不管是對於獨立出版、Stack、又或是雜誌界，都會是一個十分特別且能夠帶動出版流動的機會。

A : This year has been the third year of the annual Stack Awards. Could you give some introduction about it ?

S : The reason why we like to start the Stack Awards is that we want to make more gorgeous independents magazines to be see. For magazines in general, to get into award nomination also need an amount of money, so Stack offer this chances that it’s totally free to join and participate. So different kinds of magazines from worldwide will be gather here and it’s specially focused on independent magazines. And the Awards also want to show that because we have kinds of different nomination, so it includes that we want to create a new way of ranking and selection. Until this year, it’s the third year, I believe that the Awards will be more and more influential in the future, besides, we have our own ceremony, there will be a variety of great “ Magaziners” or magazine lovers all come together, it’s like a grand meeting and people could create any communicate or alternates as they want. And as for the selection of the award prize is mainly by me, we’ll also make discussions with some great editors to select out the winners for each prize. I think the award it’s always a good thing not only for independent magazines but it’s a really special opportunities to make some flows or create some touch in the publication fields.

A：你是否有想過要開設一間實體的獨立雜誌書店呢？

S：其實你問到這個問題非常湊巧，前一陣子也有一些來自中國的出版人們想邀請 Stack 設立實體店面。但是目前 Stack 主要還是會以網路販售為主，而關於實體紙本的實際閱讀與讀者們如何判斷應如何下手雜誌，Stack 時常也會透過我們自己的 Blog、並且拍攝短片來介紹我們的雜誌們，因為開設實體的獨立雜誌店面目前還未在我的規劃中。

A : Have you thought of opening an independent magazine shop?

S：Actually there is a coincidence recently, like few weeks ago, there were some publishers from China they also give me an invitation to set up a magazine select shop. But now I think Stack will still do our jobs through the Internet and about how we make connection with subscribers without the virtual touch or real turning pages, we often write magazines introduction and sometime through our newsletter, blog or podcast and videos. A magazine shop is not yet in my plan, in other words, is not my main point now.

A：對於未來，Stack 有什麼樣的規劃呢？

S：有，當然有。對於未來的規劃目前也正在進行中，希望能重新塑造 Stack 的品牌形象，希望能夠讓 Stack 變得更有影響力，像是剛剛提到的 Monocle。或許未來也會做出不同的產品支線，只是現在因為工作實在是太多了，最大的願望還是希望能讓更多有趣的獨立雜誌被喜愛他們的讀者們所看到，因為雜誌是要給讀者夢想的。＃

A： Do you have any plan for the future ?

S：Yes, of course yes ! The plan for future is always ongoing now. I hope Stack can be rebranding, to create it into a brand or turn upside down some images of, I hope it could be more powerful and influential, maybe we’ll make some products just as we mentioned about Monocle. But now I still have lots of stuff to do, the biggest wish is still to finding more interesting and quality independent magazines that to be seen by their readers because “ Magazines are meant to give readers a dream.” #